Jed Byrne loves Raleigh, especially its people and places. He tries to engage with both on a daily basis. By day, he works as a Business Development Representative at a local engineering firm. By night, he works on projects that connect his love for people and Raleigh. Jed tweets about spaces and places at @Oakcitycre, and also creates and shares a weekly development newsletter through https://oakcitycre.com/. Additionally, he hosts the Dirt NC podcast, which is all about the places and spaces of North Carolina and the people who make them awesome. From time to time he also designs stickers and t-shirts. He lives with his family in Raleigh and has been here since 2012.
Get to know Jed:
Reach out to The Rachel Kendall Team:
Jed Byrne loves Raleigh, especially its people and places. He tries to engage with both on a daily basis. By day, he works as a Business Development Representative at a local engineering firm. By night, he works on projects that connect his love for people and Raleigh. Jed tweets about spaces and places at @Oakcitycre, and also creates and shares a weekly development newsletter through https://oakcitycre.com/. Additionally, he hosts the Dirt NC podcast, which is all about the places and spaces of North Carolina and the people who make them awesome. From time to time he also designs stickers and t-shirts. He lives with his family in Raleigh and has been here since 2012.
Get to know Jed:
Reach out to The Rachel Kendall Team:
Hey Triangle lovers. Welcome to Making Moves hosted by The Rachel Kendall Team where we will explore together the top restaurants, community hotspots and events in our area. Let's make some moves. Hi, everyone, it's Mahala landin with Making Moves and I have a really cool guest today because he's a fellow podcaster. Right. Yeah. So we got Jed Byrne from Dirt N.C and Oak City CRE, commercial real estate. Welcome.
Unknown:That's right. Glad to be here. Thank you for the invitation. Thank you for all this setup. This looks great. I'm excited to get into it.
Mahala Landin:Yeah, it was fun to watch you and Anna just nerd out a little bit on some equipment,
Unknown:Equipment people can have equipment conversations. And I was just as I looked at the camera, I was like, Man, I kind of want to talk about cameras, too. But we'll get there maybe maybe that's
Mahala Landin:might be podcast number two, that was not my wheelhouse. I'm so thankful to have great people in my world. And actually, that's another reason that we know each other, correct? That's right. So tell me a little bit about yourself. What got you here, what makes you interesting, and then we'll dive a little bit deeper and find out about your experiences here in the triangle and whatnot.
Unknown:Sure. So I did not grow up in the triangle I got here in 2012. I like to think I got here as fast as I could. It took a while. But I moved here in 2012 to go to grad school at UNC go heels. And so I had an undergraduate degree in mechanical engineering, did some work in that and then ultimately decided I really wanted to get into real estate. And so UNC has a great program in their business school, that is real estate development and finance focused. So I started in 2012 through 14 moved to Charlotte for a bit to work in multifamily development. And then ultimately moved back here where I met Anna, to work at a large office REIT here in Raleigh, which is so an office landlord across the southeast, origin, their finance department, and then worked for another firm in development, and then now work for an engineering firm. So my whole kind of career synopsis has really been focused on the second half of my career on land use and development and placemaking. And that all stemmed from the fact that, you know, no matter where you go, or what you do, land use and real estate has a huge impact on your life, whether you know it or not, right. So we're sitting in an office that was built by somebody and right, you guys made it your own space, and you're operating a business out of it. But somebody had to have an idea, there had to be a piece of land. And then somebody kind of made this thing happen. And now you guys get to use it. And that's true everywhere you go. And so I've always been fascinated by just kind of how people and places and spaces interact. And so I've had the privilege of working, like I said, at a bunch of different companies where I get to do that professionally. But then also starting. See, we're 22. So probably six or seven years ago, as a as a fairly newcomer to the triangle, I realized this is not where I grew up, this is not my home. And no matter what I want to do in the future, it seemed like a good idea to start to get to know people. And so when I was at work, I actually talked to my boss and I said, Hey, listen, I know this really isn't part of my job. But would you be okay, if I just started spending a little bit of time every week, you know, maybe out of the office, maybe in the office, but just getting to know people in the real estate space. Because again, no matter what happens, no matter what I do, no matter what I do with the company, it's going to be beneficial to know people. And I felt like I was kind of starting behind I was trying to catch up and make up for lost time. And Raleigh and the triangle has been an extremely welcoming place. And so it's not a hurdle wasn't getting to know people and connecting with people. It's just the time and having the discipline to do that. And so I started to do that just once a week meeting people for coffee, or lunch or whatever. And that was going well again, every time I reached out to somebody and said, Hey, you're doing something interesting. You're in real estate, I'm fascinated by land use and real estate and development. So I just like to chat, learn about what you do. People were very responsive to that. But I quickly realized, and again, I'm an engineer by training. So maybe I have a bit of a nerdy math brain. But I quickly realized if I was meeting one new person a week, that's 52 people here, which is pretty good. But if I'm building a relationship with you, it's gonna be hard to do that on a once a year basis, right? If I see you every year, like, yes, we'll have some form of relationship. But that's not nearly as good if it's more often often than that. And so I kind of tried to figure out like, I can't, I can't spend all of my time out just meeting people. I have to work I have to,
Mahala Landin:well, that's living here. Yeah. And you can't see me because it's podcast, but my hand just went flat, right? Like that's living on the surface. And that's not really getting down into the depths of what actually builds a relationship. So even though that nerdy brain of yours, put KPIs against, you know, meeting people and developing relationships, I mean, you literally just put a metrics on that, which is hysterical.
Unknown:I mean, and I actually talked about this a bit with people recently. I'm not sure and you can't see my book, but I do I just keep a list of people. Whenever I see somebody doing something interesting, or somebody who I think is either doing something interesting or is interesting, I just jot a note down and say I'd like you know, just keep them kind of Top of Mind if I get the chance to reach out. So I started looking at different ways to stay connected to people and to build relationships outside of just a one to one meeting just because it it, I didn't have the time, it was not possible to to do what I wanted to do on a one to one basis. And so that's when I got the idea of starting oak city care, which has been kind of this overarching platform have started with a newsletter, and then the podcaster. And so you came out of that. But so for the last five or six years, and then also social media, so I'm very more active on Twitter, some Instagram, but Twitter,
Mahala Landin:well, in your space, Twitter makes a lot of sense. And we can talk about that a little bit more to we can
Unknown:and we can talk about how long it took me to realize that that was probably the smart use of my time as opposed to Instagram or I've never been to LinkedIn. I mean, it it's amazing to me looking back on how long it took me to realize that Twitter because Twitter is interactive. And it allowed me to participate in conversations, and ask questions on
Mahala Landin:the topic of planning and development. So many political figures use Twitter to communicate their intentions or what their platforms are. And, and that's a better following, because that's your audience, right? And just pairing that audience together. But we jumped around a lot. So I have to get back before it let's go. But I gotta go backwards to 2012. Because I love the passion about real estate. I think a lot of people as they get into adulthood, find a passion for real estate, but nobody wakes up and says I'm passionate about land use and purpose and why people use buildings are wildland is intended for that. So can you can you back up a little bit and talk about what what was that that light switch that came on when you kind of discovered that love? Sure passion, because it's obviously driving a huge part of your business today.
Unknown:It is I mean, I think so my my theory with going to grad school at UNC was I would like to get into the seat of the real estate developer, I would like to be the person who's part of the team that builds the building. And the more I did that, I realized that it's, it's a very small group of people who actually do that for a living. And same thing with brokers. And you know, on the residential side, it's a small group, but the the impact is huge. And so like I said, everybody's involved in it in some capacity, right, either either as a user as a tenant as a neighbor. And so I realized that there was this huge kind of, I don't say it's a gap. But you know, a lot of people are impacted by it every day, our land use decisions from from politics and policy to, again, what the developers do. And again, on Twitter, everybody has opinions. Everybody has thoughts about real estate and development. But there seem to be this kind of disconnect between the world I was in which was the professional side of it, and going to organizations like Uli and meetings and conferences, and then that I mean, that's like, half a percent of all of Raleigh is kind of in that pool. And then the other 99.5% are the everyday people who are impacted by this and are interested in him. And that's the other thing, every but not everybody, there's a very large amount of the population that is interested in what's going on in development,
Mahala Landin:but not enough communication out there. Because as a, as a residential real estate broker, I mean, we get those questions all the time when we're working with our clients is, well do you know what's going to be built behind my house? And that information is not readily available? It's especially in the residential space. Now in the commercial space, of course, there's resources and training and, and all of that, but in the residential space, there's not a lot of crossover, right. So it is it is really fascinating, especially for me, I can't call myself a native but I can call myself a local you know, watching what has happened with Cary and Raleigh and Durham from my from the time I was from 1984. Until 2022 is mind boggling and and being a part of it as a resident is one thing, but you coming in, like you said, trying to catch up to the history of this growing community. That's a that's a much more daunting task. Yeah,
Unknown:it's, it's, it's a weird blend of kind of simple and complicated. Because, again, real estate development buildings are fairly simple, you know, their four walls and a roof, right? Land is land, dirt is dirt for the most part. And there's history and context and all that and design. I mean, a lot, a lot goes into it, but it's worth building places and spaces for people. And it also gets really kind of complicated and opaque. And I think there's a terminology that people use, there are resources and documentation again, when you when you get asked, Hey, what's going to be built? There's a field next to me what's going to be built there.
Mahala Landin:Why is this road stop? And then you see the guardrails? Yep,
Unknown:why is it just dead? And how does that happen? And what's going to happen in 10 years, I mean, we I live on a street like that where it's part of a road that was kind of severed Good. And that's one of the questions in you know, does this happen? Where could it happen where that turns into? Well, it's not dead end road anymore.
Mahala Landin:One of my favorite things about selling residential real estate was driving. Yeah. And I know that sounds crazy, but I miss it so much I miss the driving. And you know, growing up in this area, I remember, lead Mine Road. And I remember the lead Mine Road extension, and old lead Mine Road and how it used to hit six works. And like that kind of stuff is so fascinating to me. It's like who came in here and decided to sever baileywick You know, who came in and decided to reroute lead Mine Road in order to make this happen. And then you see the target go in the whole foods go and you're like somebody had a plan, right? Even in 1984, somebody had a plan? And I guess it's how to residents? Or how, how did you navigate figuring out where all of that those resources are? Or how to answer some of those questions of why this land is the way it
Unknown:is so so a big piece of that has come back to relationship. I mean, that, to me, kind of a cornerstone of my life is relationship. And in my mind, none of us are as smart as all of us, which is a huge kind of, again, another kind of quote that I always lean on. But see,
Mahala Landin:I don't ask that question until the end. But we'll have to revisit it. floods. I
Unknown:mean, the the the way, unfortunately, the planning is out there, right. So those road plans are years and sometimes decades in the making mean that we have long range plans with the city that go out to 20 3040. I mean, they go way out there. So these conversations are always happening, but they're not top of mind. And I mean, you think about infrastructure projects with the city. I mean, you look at certain things. I mean, we're working on bus rapid transit. Now, that's been in the works for 810 12 years, and then all of a sudden, you know, some construction activity starts or road gets closed off, or cones start going up. And people who moved there in the last two years, are saying, well, what, what's happened? Well, why is this happening? You know, what are you guys doing with my street, and it's like, well, we've been working on this for 20 years. And so there's been, I don't know if it's because of the growth in the triangle, or just the nature of these projects are so complicated. And because community involvement is important. They typically don't move fast. I mean, very few cities will say, oh, I want to do this type of expansion, or this infrastructure project. And it's like six months later, we're just doing it. Because if they do that they risk causing a lot of problems and hurting a lot of people and having negative impacts. And so they tend to go slow. But that slow pace also has the consequence of if you moved here five years ago, you might not even be aware that when they had the meeting, six years ago, and seven years ago, and they didn't know when they hit went through a three year planning process. And then now that it's planned, so then they go through funding, and that takes a handful of years. And that's when you move in. So you don't really hear about it's not in the news, right? So out there, it's in a document somewhere. And there's been a lot of work put into it. And then all of a sudden, you see the orange cones go up, and you're really confused as to what's going on. So it's a weird. And I think kind of unfortunate mix, you don't want to move quick, because you can hurt people and you can have negative impacts. But it's also tough and frankly expensive. For for communication to be consistent, and constant. For 10s of 1000s of people for 1520 years.
Mahala Landin:I think the most perfect example of that was the 540 extension. You mentioned 2012, I started selling residential real estate in 2014, primarily for the Rachel Kendall team. And that 540 extension had not been approved yet. I think it had been sitting in five year approval process even at 2014. Do you remember that? And as you were transitioning into this world, or were you at all involved in
Unknown:that. So I was I wasn't involved. I tried to pay attention. But you know, even even as those things progress, you know, it goes from this. And again, I'm not a planner, this is not my background, right? You go through, hey, we have this outer belt line that we want to complete. And there's this again, there it goes from an idea to say, Okay, here's what we want to do, and you go out and you get feedback, and you're not committed
Mahala Landin:to the environmental stuff. Remember it all it all boiled down to like a microscopic organism that was in wetlands that forced it to go to the orange route and not the purple route. Right. So I think those are the things that people miss if they're not, you know, but even then I was having to go to the D O T site on a regular basis to get new information I pass on to people that had disclosures on their homes.
Unknown:And that's the way I think these things typically operate is the information has to be out there has to be public information. So the information is there. But again, where maybe it would be quicker to to text everybody in the city or to email everybody or to do some form of other kind of more modern communication. That is not necessarily equitable, because what if you don't have a cell phone or what don't have access to You know, I mean, you can't say, oh, well, the information is out there, you just, you know, I message it to you, right? And it's like, well, I don't have that access to. So I think a lot of times in the effort to be fair and equitable, things just move slower. And again, that the the processes, whether it, whether it's building this office building, or building a highway, are extremely iterative. And there's all these different levels of risk and issue that have to be addressed. So right, here's where we think it should go. Here's kind of what makes the most sense. And then you talk to the engineers, and they say, Well, that can't work. And then you talk to the environmental folks. And I say, Well, that can't work. And then you get it priced. And then the finance team says ELAC can't work. And so this whole time you go from this initial idea, down to the final product, and there's just a ton of things that change. Yeah. And it makes it again, it's it's kind of, it's fairly simple. You know, people know how to build roads, but the process of getting it done or know how to build buildings, but the process of getting it done, takes a lot of time, takes a lot of risk and takes a lot of change. And again, those are things that people don't like change.
Mahala Landin:Well, you sold me on the passion. Yeah, and how invested you are in this career of yours. So let's go back to that question that you asked your manager about this idea to help you build deeper connections within the commercial real estate world? What? Trial and error, what worked, what didn't work? I mean, what did you learn in that process of creating this great community? Because I do believe that the most successful people are the ones that have the ability to be a community manager. Yeah.
Unknown:What worked and what didn't work, it's really a lot of trial and error. And I think at the core of it. Building relationships of any kind has to come kind of from You got to want to do it, and you have to care. And you got to want to show up day in and day out. Again, this is something I've been doing for I mean, the newsletter for almost six years. I like to think that I'm one of the few women that like to think I think it just happened that, you know, I'm one of the few people that thinks about commercial real estate in Raleigh, I would say like, top 1%. Again, that's not a point of pride that doesn't go on my resume. But it's just, it's just naturally, it's something I really, really care about. And again, seeing this gap between what I know and what I see and what I understand. And then just talking to friends and colleagues and other people, and there's there just seems to be this huge gap. And so how can I, you know, that's kind of what drives me is how can I connect with people? How can I help educate? How can I help inform, and, and frankly, learn and so that's, that's what drives me. And so what works and what doesn't work? Starting works, and committing works. That's one thing I can say with with no shadow of a doubt. The very first newsletter I sent was, literally a Gmail email, I opened up a Gmail account for Oak city care. And I populated it with 40 or so emails, just people I knew. And I said, and it might be technically spam. I don't think so. But they forgive me if it was, but I just said, Hey, listen, here's what I'm going to do. You know, I spend so much time thinking about real estate and development and news. I'm thinking about putting together this weekly email, it's just going to be kind of these five bullets. Here's what's going on. Here's what you need to know in Raleigh. It's commercial real estate. It's only in Raleigh. And then I just said, Are you interested, you know, tell me if you went off that list, you'll get off the list. And so I did that. And I started, that was the beginning of 2017. And it's changed a lot since then. And it's gotten I hope better. It's certainly grown. But it was just this idea of well, I'm going to do this. And the cool thing about doing something digital versus in person, where I think in person is absolutely better. If you could, if I could meet one on one with everybody that I interact with, that would be ideal, but it's just not feasible. The digital aspect is it, it doesn't take more effort to send an email to one person or 1000. I mean, it's exactly the same thing. It's leveraging that resource of the digital kind of channel the value. And so that again, starting and trying it seeing what worked, what didn't work. I mean, I would get I got to a point where it's uh, well, we'll you know, the way I'm currently doing this with just an email, there's no way for somebody else, there's no way for mahalo or Anna, to find out about this and get involved, they, you would have to say, email me and say, Hey, Jed, can you add me to the list, so it just didn't work? So I figured what's what's a step and I first got on tiny letter, which was Ashton Smith, who also has a newsletter that I think it's phenomenal. Rally over easy. Google it if you're not familiar. She does this like weekly roundup of basically everything. And really, it's crazy. And she has been doing it for a decade or more. I don't know how she does. That's amazing. That was one of those things where it's like, okay, well, she's using this tool, and it seems to be working for her. So I copied that and I started a tiny letter, and that worked. And now all of a sudden, people could sign up and it went from 40 people to you know, 100 and that seemed to work and people seemed in involved and interested. And then it's really I mean, I looked at it. It's grown substantially since then. But it really has been, you know, five people a week for the last six years. And people tend not to leave Twitter. Like I said, we can we can talk more about that. That's been good because it's a way people interact more on Twitter, and last questions. And, again, I get to I get to listen in on conversations and ask questions
Mahala Landin:on the wall fly on the wall. So the question I have for you is, okay, you have an engineering background, you go to grad school, you start focusing in on planning on the financial aspect of projects. And somewhere in there, you became an entrepreneur. And I think the the idea of entrepreneurship is so misinterpreted, because people think entrepreneurs are making tons of money. But what you just described was just a great example of true entrepreneurship. And, you know, that's something I think, as we, you know, make decisions in our lives, we have to sit back and say, you know, what, I did create something I told I did a leadership, which is another connectivity for us, leadership rally, but I did a leadership 360 evaluation one time during my career, and I made the comment about myself, and I was from an arts background, and I and I said, I'm not that creative, you know, and the person that was running that leadership, you know, evaluation was like, well, but you are creative, you just don't create art, you know, and I think we all have that aspect of creation. And you've described that about yourself several times, you know, about how you built something, and that is entrepreneurship, and now you're keeping it alive. And you show up every single day for your audience and for your, you know, your community that you are serving, and that is leadership and and entrepreneurship. Did you ever see yourself there?
Unknown:Not really, no, I mean, it is funny, I think I've always known. That's how I got into engineering. I like figuring out how things work. I like solving problems. I like building things, I've always kind of been a tinkerer and a serial hobbyist, and that's part of it, too, is you know, this is building something. And it fortunately takes up zero, or I guess the amount of space of a cell phone takes up very little room, I don't leave bits and parts and pieces all over the garage. There's not sawdust flying through the air. So it's, it is building something. And I think it's exposed a lot of different facets of myself that I don't think I realized fully that I had. And my suggestion to people, whenever I talk to him about this sort of thing is like just just start, just try something. And you'll find out what you like, what works, what doesn't work. I mean, the cost of the cost of doing things these days is got to be as low as it's ever been. I mean, the cost of starting up a website or social media account, or you know, everybody has got video equipment, or you can record
Mahala Landin:speaking of like Twitter and social media. I mean, as millennials, we came of age with MySpace, and you had to have a computer science degree just to build your, your MySpace to work. And now everything is like right there at your fingertips. And so I mean, I could watch a YouTube video and figure out how to create API connections. I mean, that's actually how I know Anna is I hired her, because I'm sitting there about to start this big digital media strategy that I had in my brain of how to integrate databases so that I can better communicate with our audience. And I'm ready. I'm like, I know how to use Zapier, and I know how to do this. And I'm ready to do it. And then I was like, but I don't want to, it's not my strength anymore. I know, I need to know when I can bring somebody else in to compliment ideas and to do actually a way better job than I could have ever done it.
Unknown:It's it's Yeah, I mean, it, you learn to me, I learn by doing and I think most people do, and the cost of starting to do something are very low. And you find out quickly, where that where the hurdle points are where the blockages and it's amazing to me, as you do something, you're gonna find out what your problem is, once you discover your problem, you kind of have an inkling of what the question is going to be right. I mean, you mentioned YouTube, but it's like, I have a 2010 Prius and a left rear light bulb is out. How do I change that? Not only do you find that part online with a Google search, but on YouTube, there's somebody who has spent, I don't know, three hours editing, filming, shooting this video putting it up on YouTube, and it's not oh, here's how you change a taillight. It's, here's how you change that exact tail light on that exact model of climbing everything. You can find the answers to anything out there. I mean, the hurdles are so low, but I don't think you find them until you start. And so that's always been kind of my thing is try it get out there. You'll see what works, you'll see what you enjoy. You see what you know, I don't enjoy being I enjoy thoroughly keeping up with what's going on. I do not enjoy being active 24/7 on social media. I mean, I know people who do similar things to what I do, and they're just always on all the time and there's a guy clay Seeley in Charlotte that does CLT development, and he's just non stop 24/7 365 You will not catch me on Twitter, you know at nine o'clock at night and you won't catch me constantly updating and responding. And that works for me. And again, I don't lose sleep at night over it. because it's just I figured out, that's what works for me and when that's what doesn't, and that's kind of my
Mahala Landin:and it works for your audience, you mentioned something about that it's growing, it's because of the value that you're presenting. And we talked about this with our team, in terms of how we communicate with our past clients, you know, we have to always stay relevant. And if they're not in the business of buying and selling at home, well, what makes us relevant to them, and it's the value that we can continue to provide to them. So during this, you know, journey that you've had, you're you've clearly identified what that value is, and you've mentioned a gap. But can you can you communicate what that value proposition sure is about the information that you're sharing? Because it keeps people coming back? And it lets you do it the way you want to do it?
Unknown:I mean, the big caveat is I think, so. And I think the interesting thing about again, just just starting up and just doing something is you'll find out quickly what works and what doesn't. And you can ask people say, hey, you know what, and I try to do that try to get feedback. To me, there's a gap in kind of understanding of the terminology, the processes, where the information is, how to get it, what it all means. And there's a gap, I think there's especially in real life, there's so much happening, that there's just kind of an onslaught of, of news,
Mahala Landin:there used to be when I was selling, and I was kind of nerdy about it, too, is there was a development beat on Facebook. Yeah. And it was great, because they were constantly posting about new developments. And then because I love driving, I would be anywhere near those places. And I would kind of take a look like, Oh, I remember reading about that. And I'd share it out to my, you know, following on social media, and then it just kind of went away. Yeah. But clearly, that is something that you experienced to where that wasn't the right platform for that type of information. And Twitter really was,
Unknown:I think, Well, I think it it can take a lot of work. And like most things, you know, they're very few things that you can get to the end of something and say, Okay, well, this is done, this is complete, this is perfect. And so again, I tried to constrain myself into my newsletter is going to be once a week, and it's going to be five articles. It's sometimes six, sometimes four. But I said these constraints again, to know what kind of is enough, because I feel like if I don't know what enough is, I can drive myself crazy crazy to get it perfect. But you brought up the point of staying relevant and staying valuable. I do think, again, the tools are all out there. And if you are on the home sales side, again, when somebody buys a home every 357 years, there's a there's a big gap between when you can be ultimately helpful, right, which is I'm a broker, I'm a realtor, I'm going to help you buy or sell this home, and then seven years later, but how can you, you know, keep people informed about hey, this is what's going on, you know, this event is happening in your neighborhood this weekend. This is something I know you moved into this house, I know you have children, we've talked about that. Okay, well, if your kids were this age last year, they're this Okay, so you have a 10 to 12 year old, here's some things that you might find interesting for you and your family this weekend or next month. And again, I think the the amount of information out there in the world is overwhelming, completely overwhelming. And I think when you asked what the value is, I think that's kind of one of the values is just kind of paring it down making it simple, because I have on my newsletter, there are there are people who are developers and investors and are absolutely kind of in the thick of the real estate space. And they're up to speed. They know what's going on. And I've talked to some of them, they say, Well, I like the newsletter, because I can look at it and in two minutes realize, yep, knew about that, knew about that, knew about that, and knew about that. So I'm up to speed, I'm good to go, can can move on. And then there are other people who didn't know, I mean, I get emails all the time. So I had no idea this was happening. And
Mahala Landin:I think so is your audience pretty vast in that way? Like, do you feel like it's
Unknown:fairly diverse. I mean, that's the thing that's been interesting to me. And again, my original thesis was development, whether you're in it or not, impacts you in positive and or negative ways every single day. And so there's there's a bias because I care a lot about development, but a lot of people are really interested in what's going on in their places and spaces and in their community. And so, to me, that's kind of the one value proposition. And then the other one, which I'm starting to get more into, is kind of the education and information piece of, you know, okay, well here's, you know, how did you find out that information? You know, I wrote an article a few weeks ago on IMAP so which is our Wake County GIS system, and there's, there's oodles of information out there if you know how to look for and
Mahala Landin:it does actually, to, to the credit of our you know, Register of Deeds and that whole site. It gets better every year honestly.
Unknown:And as someone who's worked across the state, we have it better. I mean, there are other counties that the information just is not as robust and easy to get to and easy to use. So we've got it really good in lots of ways and Wayne County but so again, helping Pete You know, and I wrote that article, I'm sure Are the people and so I had no idea you could do that. And to me, again, I know I know a little bit of that a little bit of things. But having that ability to kind of share that information, and then also start a conversation, where I know a bunch of other people. And again, back to Twitter and the value of just being connected to people, is I'll just ask a question and say, Hey, I wonder if this is possible. And I've had Ryan Cooper's a guy that I interact with a lot on Twitter, who is this like mapping genius. And sometimes he'll respond and just say, Oh, hey, I built this little custom map applet is like, here you go, is exactly what you were looking for. It's like, Hey, how can we identify all of the, you know, residential land in Wake County? And then like, an hour later, I just get this response, like, Oh, here you go, I made the map for you. And again, I can't I have no idea how people do some of the things that they do. But just the fact that you've got some sort of base level of relationship and trust with somebody allows for this opportunity, this little idea or question, to come up with something cool. And again, I just, I'm such a firm believer in relationship, because it leads to trust. And I think if you have trust, we don't even need to go down that rabbit hole. But we can. But like, especially especially in the built environment, where what I do, impacts what you do. And again, that could be positive or negative. But you know, what, us building this office here means nothing else can exist here. But hopefully, this is a net positive for our community building that road or not building that road or that park.
Mahala Landin:Yeah, I mean, every day, I watched the geo mapping and the and the people come in ready to just expand six forks right into our building. And, and I think Wake County does a pretty good job of trying to communicate, we you drive by, and you see the signs of, you know, public notices, and they're really, to your point of equity and communication, they're really making every effort to get the information in people's hands in any possible way. And if you notice that all of these public notices, not only are they on the areas that it affects, but they also really try and like saturate around bus stops, and around school communities, and just a lot of areas that our high traffic in order to let make sure that it's delivered.
Unknown:And that's one of the things. Again, this is not a quote of mine, but it's it's, you know, the the land use challenges and opportunities that we face, I think are more tensions to be managed rather than problems to be solved. Because like what you just brought up about six sports expanding, you can say, Okay, well, we've got a ton of cars driving down six floors, they need more room. Well, that's not a problem that you can solve. It's a tension that you can manage. Because if you if you add more road space, you have more room for cars, more cars, but literally and physically, now you have less parking in front of your office building, or you have less maybe a building or trees or maybe no bill. I mean, that's again, there's all of the things that I kind of think about and talk about are not problems that you can just solve, there is no one solution. Whether whether it's on the commercial side of the residential side, it's a constant dance of tension. And those tensions need to be managed. And and one of the greatest tools, I think, for helping manage that tension is just the general idea of communication, relationship building, and the building trust. Because again, if you trust, if you trust your planning department, that they're doing the best suit, your transportation department, your utility department, your elected officials, your neighbors, I mean, if you have trust, you can then start a conversation. And they can say, well, here's what we're thinking about doing. And you kind of voice your opinion, and then you go back and you get to this result that is, again, maybe not the perfect solution, and you didn't solve the problem. But hopefully, you've managed the tension as a community to the best of your ability.
Mahala Landin:Yeah. So one of the things, you know, we talked about is the the way that you're delivering information to a diverse group of people. So what what are ways that you would recommend our residents get outside of your podcast or outside of your newsletter, to be able to tap into, you know, educating themselves on some of these opportunities to resolve tension?
Unknown:So you mentioned kind of a diverse audience. That's one of the things I struggle with is I don't think my audience is terribly diverse, unfortunately, because it you know, it's on Twitter, it is email, and it's people that I know, I mean, I don't if there's 1000 people on my newsletter, that's, I don't know, one out of every 500 People in Raleigh, I mean, it's a very small, small percentage. And so that that's something I think is just a challenge in general is how do you communicate with a diverse set of people? I don't have an answer to that. What I would recommend to people is get to know your neighbors, read your local news, engage in conversations and my personal the thing that I think is saved me many times on Twitter is I try and ask questions rather than tell you what I think. Because, you know, I already know how to change your mind. Well, and frankly, especially on Twitter, you probably can't. But you know, I know what I know. And so whenever somebody says, you know, if I share something, and somebody says, Well, this is the horrible idea, it's gonna be tell me about why do you think that because again, it's it, I don't think there's a right or wrong. But you know, if you can explain to me or share what you think, then I can learn something from it. And I can agree with you or disagree with you. But now I know, oh, hey, there's people out there that, you know, think, I don't know, bus services, a waste of money. Right? Interesting. Let's talk about the tell me why that is. And again, usually there. It's based on something. And so again, if you get to know what people think and how they think, I think that's helpful and powerful. And again, you can see where the other person's coming from. And I see that every single day. And so that's what I'd recommend is, communicate with people, talk to your neighbors, reach out to people, if you have questions. I mean, again, I've been so blown away in Raleigh, just how open and receptive people are. And if you're interested in what they're doing, I can't I can't imagine someone's gonna say, Oh, you find what I do interesting. And you want to learn more about it? No, I don't want to spend time with you. And you know, maybe it's not going to be lunch, maybe it's not gonna be a coffee. But you know, if you reach out to somebody in the planning department, every is every single, every single municipal employee that I've ever met, wants to do a good job and wants to do their job well. And so instead of, you know, going out to the road contractor, and yelling and screaming and just say, Hey, what are you doing? You know, what's going on here today? Tell me about this. You know, this is this is a surprise to me. How do we, you know, how do I find out where this information came? Or who gave you, you know, where do your kind of orders come from? And it's okay, let's city. Okay, who can I talk to the city? And instead of being computational, just being curious. Yeah, I think that goes a long way. And again, I don't have the answer for communicating with a diverse set of people. That's that's a very, very challenging problem. But I just think it starts with reaching out, asking him to talk to people to communicate, and just kind of starting with this openness to learn rather than Oh, hey, here's what I think is right, here's what I think we should or here's what I know, we should do. This is the right answer.
Mahala Landin:I subscribe to the theory that the relationship is the conversation, right? So the first step is just having that, you know, open dialogue, which is great. So from your perspective, as now a resident of the last 10 years in Raleigh, what has been some of the most impactful change that we've had in our landscape? Whether it's from land use, or development or, you know, infrastructure that you've seen? What's What do you feel like it's been the most impactful to where we are today?
Unknown:most impactful? That's a big question. I think some of the most impactful things that I've seen that have really been impressive. The weak transit plan. So for bus rapid transit, there was a light rail conversation that went on for a while, that is no more. But this idea, I think, the wheels are starting to turn on, we cannot build enough space for cars, for everybody to drive everywhere, all the time, right by themselves. I think I think the wheels are starting to turn into this conversations around transit conversation,
Mahala Landin:singles, the movie single,
Unknown:I mean, it's just it, that's, again, from an engineer's perspective, like you can do, you can do the math, and you can look at it if 500,000 people are in their cart, well, we don't have 5000 drivers. But if the math is challenging, it doesn't quite work. But so so transit conversations, the conversations around, I don't even want to say alternative modes of transportation, but bikes and pedestrian infrastructure that we are building and it's going on the ground. And again, I think just the fact that we as a community are taking action on some of these big issues. Lots of conversations around housing affordability, and I think that's a huge one that everyone is now facing directly, especially especially,
Mahala Landin:came relevant. Yeah, you know, and, and the funny thing is, and I say it to the team, every time we do training, and we talk about where we are today in the real estate market is this was not an accident. This didn't happen because of the pandemic. This was you know, let's go back to 2008 when homebuilders decided to pull the plug on building, that's when this happened. You know, we we are in a housing affordability, you know, issue today because of just the, you know, robust demand that we have for homeownership. And we're very lucky for that, but we have to get that supply up and we are still one of the most affordable places to live in the nation, even though it doesn't feel that way because local natives, you know, have a different memory. But we have to shift our perspective of where we are in comparison to other.
Unknown:Well, that's that's the that, I think is the crux of the issue. Again, it's a tension, it's not a problem, you know, you can show me the data that says, Oh, hey, we are, you know, the number two, number three fastest growing market in the state or in the country. And we are still on an affordability. If you look at the average cost of housing, we are, you know, exposition way down the list compared to all these other major metros. I don't know that that changes my opinion. If I say, Okay, well, you know, I've been saving for six years, and I was trying to get to be able to afford a house for $400,000. And now I finally got my down payment for that house, and I can't afford it. And it's and it's $600,000. And so again, that I think is part of what I hope to participate in is helping people understand. Because again, this didn't happen by accident, it wasn't one person or one group decision. But I think there are options and opportunities to have an impact on what's happening on the ground. And I think if more people understand the dynamics of real estate, finance and development and infrastructure,
Mahala Landin:and the reasons for apartments and the reasons for mixed use development, and the reason for multifamily, and the reasons for this, it all, yeah,
Unknown:it's all connected. I mean, now, I can look at almost any issue. And again, I'm biased, because I'm real estate focused, I look at almost any issue. And there, it almost always comes back to land use and so you know, traffic, that's a land use issue, parking, land use issue, housing, affordability, land use issue, you know, offices and getting around town, community, all these things are land use choices that we've made. And again, I try, I have ideas, I have thoughts. I try not to tell people what I think is right or wrong, because again, I think that's irrelevant. You can't tell somebody that they're wrong and convince them. But I do think if you ask questions and get to the bottom of it and help understand, you know, why things are happening the way that they are? I think then people are we hopefully as a community can make choices that get us to the place where we want to be.
Mahala Landin:Just remain curious. Where it's been to where you want to be, where do you hope to see dirt and see and oak city care go in the next six years? 10 years? Five years? Two years?
Unknown:Um, that's a great question. I have no earthly idea. I mean, that's one of the things that I've struggled in doing that, because I think if it were a business, I would have metrics and say, and that and that's honestly, where I've seen, I think some other platforms, and newsletters and things on social media kind of come and go is, through me, it's not a business, this is a fun side project. And it doesn't cost me a ton of money, it costs me time and halftime. But you know, it just keeps growing. And so basically, as long as it's fun, I'm gonna keep doing it. With the podcast, that was something I started last year, because, you know, I think it's, it's a huge privilege of mine that I get to reach out and talk to people at the planning department, you know, other developers, designers, engineers, contractors, all these people who do the things that I find interesting and build the places that we get to go and see every single day. And I have some of those relationships, or if I reach out, people are receptive. And again, I have the time and the wherewithal and the bandwidth to do that. So that is an, you know, an option where if I can have that conversation that was gonna have anyway, I'm not gonna record it. And again, the barriers to entry on that are super low. So if I can record it, and then share it with other people, maybe somebody else can learn. So I don't have goals, which I struggle with as a goal oriented person. But I think in six years, if if it can keep growing, if I can keep learning, and if I can keep using it as an opportunity to try and get people together and talking to each other, which ultimately, I think is where any sort of improvement or change or happen, you know, I think it's super cool back when we were doing in person events, you know, I could send something out to the newsletter and say, Hey, we're getting together for coffee or happy hour. And we're going to do this thing. And it just again, people getting to meet each other. Sparking those connections, I think is a huge gift. And I love it. So I don't I don't have the exam rambling, but I don't have goals. I don't know where I'm going to keep doing what I can to have those conversations to answer questions to ask a lot of questions. Again, that's what I talked about earlier on Twitter is like, I've just found if I can stay sane, and I think it I think it continues the conversation if you just ask questions, and someone will respond to something and sometimes it's not so nice. And usually it is but you know, just keep asking, like help me understand your perspective. And if I can do that, it's helpful to me, hopefully, it's helpful to the other person but no, I just I keep I'm gonna keep doing it. I'm gonna keep growing, hopefully, trying to make things better. And try to keep connecting with people because again, that's, it's been a joy.
Mahala Landin:That's a gift. Yeah. What do you love to do on the triangle?
Unknown:Well, Do I love to do so we've got two daughters. And I like to make sure that they are exercised and worn out at the end of the day, and my wife does as well. So we spent a lot of time when we can outside again, we are, we are blessed and not not blessed, because it wasn't an accident. I mean, people 3040 50 years ago, as you know, they started planning out RTP and having these nodes of cities around the triangle, you know, people had the idea and Greenway trail, right? Say, Okay, if we're going to grow, we're going to build we're going to design it, do it in this certain way. And we're going to make right greenspace a priority, and we're going to be the city of oaks, so I love getting on our trails love getting on our into our parks and forests. I mean, right homestead, like what a blessing that is downtown, we've got parks and greenways. And the more time I can spend outside on my feet, or on a bike, the better yeah, because again, I just think that's the best way to to interact, I saw
Mahala Landin:the the waterfront property that was just put out there and the walkability from North Hills into, you know, an area of Capitol Boulevard. So I think, yeah, it's all planned out. And as a local, you know, hearing about these things for years and years. And then, like you said, it's sad to see it come to fruition come to fruition is really cool. You've mentioned so many things about trust. Yeah. And you seem to be a very culture forward, you know, person when it comes to how you do business, which is awesome. So you mentioned a quote, let's go back to that words, to live by something that is kind of that Northstar? To help you when thinking through things, what are some things that you've leaned on?
Unknown:So one that I mentioned is none of us are as smart as all of us? I mean, that's, again, not I don't even know where I got that. But it's not my idea. But I think that goes back to again, if you put multiple people together, you get better ideas. Yeah, trust. I think that's just a big cornerstone, ideal of mine, curiosity and connection. I mean, it's, it's amazing to me what's happened over time, where I've met somebody, and they can teach me something and then somewhere down the road. Some other question or comment or concern pops up. And again, just having that base level of trust and relationship has been huge. So I mean, to me, it's none of us are smart at all, as all of us, the best way to be interesting is to be interested. So I just tried to ask questions. And I learned this lesson in my first job out of school, is, you know, everybody, because I went from an engineer, you know, engineering school, to working on the field and construction with a bunch of folks who did not have engineering degrees. Some didn't, you know, hadn't graduated college or gone to college or graduate high school, some are felons and had rap sheets and all that stuff. They knew so much. They knew absolutely so much about the job that I was sent out there to do that I knew nothing about me that I was just blown away. And it was it was it was front and center. Hump it. Yeah, that everybody, every single person you meet knows way more about something than you do. Yeah. And, and I think the trick is trying to figure that out. And I don't know, if I'm, I think a strength of mine is being curious and wanting to collect information. I mean, it's just, I'm trying not to be a hoarder of information. But I'm, I'm a collector of information. And I have been blown away. I don't know that I've ever met anybody that I haven't discovered something interesting that they've done that they know that they have access to. And again, I just try to make sure I'm always I save a little bit of time to just reach out to and it's kind of random, you know, the for business. And you can say, Okay, well, these are, these are my prospects, these are my clients. These are the people I should be meeting with, obviously, have a little bit of room for just like this. I don't know what it is, but I'm going to meet you, I'm gonna discover something. And it's helpful.
Mahala Landin:And I'm glad you saved a little bit of room for this. Yeah. And I hope we can help you grow with your diversity within your following Absolutely. How do people subscribe? How do they follow? What What are ways to reach out to you sure if
Unknown:you are interested at all in the places and spaces of the triangle? My website is Oak city cre.com www.oa KC It YCRE for commercial real estate.com most active on Twitter, but all platforms are at Oak city care, and just reach out I mean, again, I I would be happy to answer any questions you have. And feedback. If ever you see something that I do or share, please provide feedback, because that's how I learned and just Yeah, reach out.
Mahala Landin:Awesome around speaking my language. Thank you so much Jad. It's been a pleasure.
Unknown:Thank you. Well, it's been great.
Mahala Landin:Thank you for joining us on this episode of Making Moves. We want to deliver the highlights of the Triangle that you want to hear. Let us know Your feedback comment on our social media like and of course subscribe to continue and discover why we love where we live until next time with making moves hosted by The Rachel Kendall Team.