It's always a good time to make sure your finances are in order, but especially at the beginning of the year when you have to think about taxes. Michael Dunaway, Financial Advisor with Edward Jones, sits down with Mahala Landin to discuss how he helps his clients prepare for their future while also building strong, lasting relationships.
Get to know Michael:
Reach out to The Rachel Kendall Team:
It's always a good time to make sure your finances are in order, but especially at the beginning of the year when you have to think about taxes. Michael Dunaway, Financial Advisor with Edward Jones, sits down with Mahala Landin to discuss how he helps his clients prepare for their future while also building strong, lasting relationships.
Get to know Michael:
Reach out to The Rachel Kendall Team:
Hey Triangle lovers. Welcome to Making Moves hosted by The Rachel Kendall Team where we will explore together the top restaurants, community hotspots and events in our area. Let's make some moves. Hey, everyone, it's Mahala landin with Making Moves and I've got a guest today that's on everybody's mind this time of the year as we're goal setting and planning for 2022. Michael Dunaway from Edward Jones is here visiting with us talking a little bit about his experience in the rally community as well as helping people with their financial decisions. So welcome. Good morning. Thank you. It's good to have you here. Thanks again, for coming in and visiting with our team, they really enjoyed it. You know, one of the things as a team leader for a real estate company, I'm always thinking about my agents and helping them and guiding them in a way that allows them to be empowered to make decisions, right, and to putting people like yourself in front of them so that they can think about what are they doing with their 1099 contract employee income? And how can they plan for the future? And how can they you know, get out of the grind and really think about what's next. So I really appreciated you coming in and sharing a little bit and even more that you're here today. Yeah, no, I enjoyed it. You know, I as much as I can. I love to be able to provide a little bit education. And certainly, like you mentioned, the goal setting at the beginning of the year, but I love to be able to come in. So thank you for the opportunity. Awesome. Well, so let's talk a little bit about you. Making Moves is all about how this community is growing and rapidly changing and how we as individuals, and sometimes even business owners are adapting to that. So tell me a little bit about what brought you here to Raleigh. So I'm one of the few people that can say I'm a local, yeah, so I was born Well, native. Well, so technically, I was born in Mississippi, okay. But we moved to apex when I was four. Okay, so all of my actual memories, you know, stemmed from from living in APEX and growing up in this community. So that's, I mean, I have family here, you know, all of my family, mom, dad, brother and sister are still in the area. I did move and live in Baltimore, Maryland for about eight years. But even then, I knew this was always gonna be home. So that's why I'm here. I'm out. I grew up here, you know, went to UNC Greensboro and UNC Chapel Hill. And, you know, there's something to be said for a place that's always voted, you know, the best places to live and have families. And, you know, I love being, you know, a couple hours from the mountains a couple hours from the beach. So yeah, yeah, it's one of those things. And I, we talked about this as real estate agents, when we have relocation clients coming in it is legitimately in the middle of the state, and it provides you with so much opportunity to travel and experience everything that North Carolina has to offer. So tell me a little bit about what got you into the position of a financial advisor. So hopefully, this won't be too long of a story. But it took a pretty winding path to get to where I am. So you know, as I mentioned, I grew up in this area, I went to school at Athens drive in here in Raleigh, because my mom taught there, okay, even though I lived across the street from Apex High School, and I was back then there was three high schools. Yeah. Then apex and carry. Exactly, exactly, exactly. And they were all definitely rivals. But so, you know, I went to Athens, I was kind of this weird kid that was a sports star, but also like this math, dork, you know. So when I was thinking about colleges, I wanted to go somewhere that I could play soccer. So I got a scholarship to UNC Greensboro to play on the soccer team there. But I also got a scholarship for the academic side through Bank of America, as long as I studied, like business and economics and finance. And so that's what I did. I really enjoyed you into Greensboro, love playing on the soccer team and got a degree in business. But after that, I wrote wasn't exactly sure what I wanted to do. I'd move to Charlotte. I was going to go work for this like nonprofit, you know, counseling type of company that use like backpacking as a way to work on like, Father Son relationships. And there's this counseling piece to that, because I always really loved helping people. That ended pretty quickly, the two guys who started that kind of pulled the plug pretty quickly. And I was like, What should I do? And I'd always wanted to go to UNC Chapel Hill, I'd grown up like a basketball fan. And one of my best friends had gone through the counseling program there for school counseling. And I thought, Oh, that's a really great thing. I can go to Chapel Hill, like I always wanted to do, and I love the idea of counseling. So I went and got a master's in Carolina, for Counseling and School Counseling. So that's what I did for 10 years. So that was back in 2006. I got married, got this degree moved to Baltimore and started working as a middle school and high school counselor. Wow. And I loved it. I loved the kids that I worked with, didn't always love the parents. But, but I did enjoy it. When we, in 2014, I think we moved back. And at that time, I was really wanting to get into private practice counseling. So I was working on getting my LPC license, I started working as a private practice counselor working on lots of different things in mental health. Clients who had anxiety, depression, I worked with couples doing marriage counseling, all those things. And I enjoyed that. But something happened, right, as it always does in life best laid plans. Yes, yes. So unfortunately, you know, my wife at the time, and I decided that, you know, we were going to end our marriage. And that was not something that was in the plan for me. And when you're starting a small business from from scratch, you know, you're really, it takes three to five years to get to a place where you're probably even making any money. And now I'm a single dad, you know, with at that time now two kids and trying to figure out well, how am I going to provide the life that I really want for them. At times along that journey, I'd thought about being coming a financial advisor. But I remember kind of pulling up to a gas station with my dad in the car just thinking like, Well, should I even apply? You know, there's this company, Edward Jones, I looked at what it takes to become a financial advisor. There's these like big licensing tests, I looked at the questions, and it was just like, I don't even know some of these words. And he just was like, you gotta go for it. Right. And so that was almost six years ago, and it's changed my life in my family's life dramatically. That's awesome. You've hit on a lot of big buttons for me in terms of what we talked about here on Making Moves, because one of the things that we've had in a lot of our our episodes is, you know, this journey that we start on as kids, and you know how that development gets us to where we can really find our passion and our purpose. Absolutely. So I love that. And so let's go back a little bit and talk about this idea. Because one of the things I wanted to get to when, when meeting with you was, there's stages of life, and how that relates to financial planning. And you and your own life have experienced that firsthand. But let's start with how does your experience with counseling really complement your work that you're doing right now with your clients on financial advising? That's a perfect question. So it was interesting, as I started to think about, you know, taking on this role, I talked to the veteran advisors, and when they found out what my background was, they did they said, like, oh, well, you're gonna do really well. And now almost six years into it, I understand why. So much of what I do, really is about like behavioral psychology, right. And if you think about why someone might even talk to an advisor, they are making a big decision about life and wanting to retire. Well, there's emotions tied to that. Maybe they're getting divorced, there's definitely emotions tied to that, right? A lot of times they're splitting assets, and they need to talk to an advisor about what to do with that. Maybe, you know, someone's passed away, unfortunately. And so there's an inheritance or an estate that needs to be figured out. There's definitely emotions tied to those things. And then when you think about investing, you know, one of the conversations that I have to have with clients is like how comfortable they are with risk. And there's a lot of people that as they see their investments and the value on their statement going up or down, especially down. My job is to really make sure on the emotional side that they understand, you know, hey, we're gonna be okay, I'm holding their hand making sure they don't kind of jump off that ledge of making, you know, poor financial decisions based off of maybe some emotions that they're feeling as opposed to really sound principles. So much of my role is about being a really, really, really good listener. So that I can understand you know, who you are, what your, you know, like financial situation is, you know, what's important to you? What are your concerns, all boils down to a relationship that you're starting 100 100% and hopefully seeing through for a very long time? Absolutely. And my role is less about the, in my opinion, all right, is about less about the analytics and more about trust. Right. A lot of times people are trusting me with their life savings things. They worked very hard for 3050 60 years. And so absolutely, you know, trust is very important. You know, being a really good listener is very important that relationship piece is so, so important, I even go back to generational behaviors to in terms of, like, they always say, if your parents were really frugal, then sometimes the child or the offspring is almost the opposite of that, right? Because they, they saw this as a restriction, right, growing up. And so their, their relationship with money is just so different. Right? And so I'm sure you get to unpack that a lot, too. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. It's always interesting, trying to understand, like, you just said, what are some of the habits or even the the thoughts that they have about how things work? Compared to how they, they really do probably work? Right, and helping, you know, educate them? I think that's one of the things clients really appreciate, you know, kind of going back to that question of how is counseling help, as a financial adviser, I always tell them, I come from a different approach. And you know, the last thing I want is someone to come in and feel like they're talked to add or talk to over, you know, so I come from, like I said, you know, showing empathy that yet, you may not necessarily know how this works. So we're going to start from the ground. And I'm going to talk to you about the foundations of investing. So that we're at least on a, you know, the same playing field. And as we go through and talk through things, you remember, oh, yeah, Michael, explain that. Right. Or I tell them, you can ask me the same question five times. And that's okay. Because my job is to answer in a way that you understand it. And if you don't, that's my fault. Right? You know, so I think people feel very comfortable when they come into my office, to know that they can ask questions, they know that I'm going to come from a place of kindness and empathy and when to really listen, which I don't know that I would have all of that if I hadn't spent 10 years. Having to build trust really quickly, you know, you think about going into a counseling session. I mean, I used to tell people, I got paid to hear their secrets. Because that was really kind of what what happened, what happened pretty quickly. And money can be a big secret. For sure. So if you so starting, in terms of how you talked about your own life and your own path, I mean, we really start to think about our futures seriously, and the impact of our decisions seriously, not on our 20s. Whether whether we want to acknowledge that or not, because I'm sure there's a lot of 20 somethings out there that are like nominated and ready to grow up yet. Yeah. But most of our, you know, big life decisions are happening in our 20s. Right. So if you could give some best practices to a client that was interested in starting to think about their financial wealth or their financial future, what would you give to them? What are some of the questions that they should be asking themselves when they're just starting off? Either their college or career? I mean, you mentioned scholarships. I'm thinking school debt, right. You know, like, there's a lot of impactful decisions are happening. Where would you start? Yeah, yeah. And I'll start with saying that, you know, anyone listening, right, there's no advice that I'm gonna give. I'm mostly going to, like you said, just give good questions that people can think about or best practices. Yeah, I mean, one of the questions I get asked often is like, Oh, how much do I need to have, like, saved up? You know, whether it's for retirement or some other goal? And I always tell people the answer that is, it depends, right? Because there's so many different things that have to be considered. When you're thinking about what your goal is, whether it's paying for college, for your kids, or paying off student loan debt, if it's saving for retirement, if it's, you know, saving to be able to travel or get that house or beach house. You know, there's so many different things like, like you said, How old are you? How much are you making, you know, how much are you saving, from what you're making? How much are you spending, you know, what's the time frame from when you might need to utilize those assets? How comfortable are you with the idea of risk and investments, you know, so all of those types of things really make an impact on what you should or maybe shouldn't do. But definitely starting out, you know, a lot of a lot of it is trying to figure out, okay, you know, what's my career going to be right now? Am I in a place where I'm, you know, with a with a partner, am I going to get married? Am I going to have kids? So a lot of it is just trying to really understand how much you're making, how much you're spending, you know, identifying, you know, somewhat of a budget, and then identifying what are some of those goals? And then what are the priority of those goals? What percentage of your clients come to you, you know, in their 20s or in their early, you know, adulthood? Phase? Yeah, that's a great question. And the reason I say that is because when I talk to people, I say the biggest asset that we have, especially when it comes to investing is time. You know, so that when you can start early, even if it's just a little bit being consistent, like that, that really has an impact on how things play out 40 or 50 years down the road. The reality is a lot of my clients, and every financial advisor is going to be different. Some of this is just the people that have come to me, and some of it is, you know, identifying who I tend to work well with, but a lot of my clients are, you know, older 4550 and above closer to retirement or living in retirement. That doesn't mean that as an advisor, you know, I wouldn't want to help someone in their 20s, right, it's just, that's what I've seen in my own personal. And I think I was a lunatic growing up, because, you know, I found myself, you know, really being very introspective about a lot of that stuff in early on, you know, I was an accounting major in college, I was, you know, at the time, double major with finance and business. And so I think it was just kind of this inundation of the importance of understanding this aspect of my life. But not everybody gets that right exposure, not everybody gets that even those life skills, right, like we talked to our children about, like, they don't know what a checkbook is, you know, oh, yeah, my kids have a little like fat cat savings account. And they're like, where's my debit card, and like, I was just talking to my daughter the other day, she was trying to, you know, we were talking about the difference between like a debit card, which is a credit card, and like the debit, it's like, you've actually made that money, it's yours, you get to spend it, whereas the credit card is like, it's a loan, you got to pay it back. And she's nine. So yeah, and I think anybody in their 20s, that is, is aware, and can acknowledge that this is an important thing, they should talk to a financial advisor, you know, I started working with one very early on, I had an internship in college. And so I had this, you know, on, like, money I'd never had before. And that was when I made that decision that it was important for myself, and and then I think on the other side of that, in your 20s, is that if you have no awareness of it whatsoever, you should be talking to a financial advisor, because, you know, there's so much counseling, as you've mentioned, that you can do that will set them up for success as they do decide what they want to do for a living. And I think we get intimidated in our 20s. Because we think we don't make enough money, right to work with somebody. Absolutely. Yeah. And getting an understanding of kind of the spending side or getting rid of debt, you know, is important, because, as a financial adviser, a lot of what I do is help people understand like, Okay, we have this goal, you have this money, how can we make it work for you, and we talk about investing, you know, stocks, mutual funds, bonds, those kinds of things. But I can't do that, right, if you've got, you know, a mounting amount of debt, you know, credit card debt, like, I don't know, 16% or something, I mean, it's really hard. If you don't have some assets that you can invest, because early on, you really didn't save, you really didn't think about paying down debt, you know, unfortunately, there are, you know, situations where people just most of their money has been spent, as opposed to save. And so it's just really hard to, you know, move forward from there. It's not impossible, it's not, and even in our profession, working with real estate and working with first time homebuyers, we we hear a lot of these same things. It's it's their cash flow is great, but their debt is, you know, eating that alive. So I think that's why I loved you know, the idea of talking about this generationally and setting people up for what questions they should ask. So, all right, we're out of our 20s we have made some big life decisions, we're in our 30s. Where what what's kind of the impact of those shifts of dynamic of maybe that person does have a partner now maybe there is some extra income? Like, right, where are some best practices for people in their 30s that have set themselves up for working with someone like you? Yeah, so I think you know, 30s 40s, even 50s people kind of in that timeframe have, you know, they have a career that they feel is pretty consistent. He said, maybe they have a family or they have children. So it's really kind of on the planning side, just trying to understand, okay, if I want to be here down the road, what do I need to be doing right now, oftentimes, when we look at the different financial goals that people have, you know, so for example, an emergency fund. So it could be anywhere from six to 12 months of whatever your monthly bills are. So making sure that you have something whether it's at a bank or at a financial firm, that you know, isn't going to that's going to be there no matter what if you were to lose a job or you couldn't pay the bills for six months, you know, you have a place where you can go. Alright, so setting up something like an emergency fund, really making sure that you understand one of the other big goals a lot of people have is certainly retirement. So are you working for a company that that offers, you know, retirement plan a 401k? Or some of the other plans that are out there? You know, are you giving an you know, enough to at least maybe getting the matching that the company offers? Um, you know, one of the, I was just gonna say, I think the biggest thing in our 30s is to look at life holistically. And I like how you're talking about a lot of different avenues, creating wealth, or even creating, you know, security. That is, again, you know, I think about in my life, some of the big mistakes, you know, we get very focused in on the future, and we forget about the right now. Yeah, and that is that holistic approach to taking care of ourselves in a financial way is, you know, can I deal with today? And can I also be planning for the future? And that, what is the weight of that? And does it ever shift? Like, do you ever, you know, talk to people and kind of lean them one direction or another? And what are those variables that you're considering? Yeah, yeah, again, a lot of it comes down to like, what their goals are, and how they prioritize those goals in their situation. So like, when someone comes in to talk to me, you know, I always tell them, it's kind of like a financial, physical or a checkup. There's two sides to that, like when you go to the doctor, one is they're going to ask you lots of questions, you know, height, weight, how you sleeping, eating all that good stuff. And then the other part of that is going to be like your blood work, right? Because there are things that are going to come back where the doctors reading it, and your cholesterol level or whatever, which I would never understand any of it. But for them, it says a lot. When I have clients come in, one they're going to come in, and I'm going to definitely spend a lot of time asking them all kinds of questions about, you know, their current financial situation. But I'm also going to say, if you have statements, that's the blood work for me, because I can see in a client statements, how they're invested, what type of account it is, you know, how it's, you know, the taxation of that type of account. So there's a lot that I can see that maybe, either they didn't know to answer, or maybe they answered incorrectly, right. So those two things combined, really can impact you know, what the advice is moving forward. Our clients sometimes don't know the right questions to even ask 100%. And I will tell people, you know, Hey, it's okay, I'm going to try and fill in some of the questions that maybe you don't know, to ask, just through the experience that I've had over time, because I want them like I said, I really want them to understand that there's a plan. So one of the things I always kind of tell people when they're looking for any financial advisor, is there's really three things that hopefully you're looking for someone that you like, someone that you trust, and someone that builds a plan that you understand. Right? So if it's 42, I probably hope to do this another maybe 25 years? Well, some of my clients, I'm hoping that they're gonna be with me that entire time. So you better like them. Right? And I hope they like me, right? When I, when they see my name on their phone, I hope like, Oh, it's my goal, and not all crap. It's my goal, right? Definitely, as I mentioned earlier, trust is like such a major component, you know, to this type of relationship. So you definitely want to trust someone. But that last part, you know, build a plan that you understand. I think sometimes people have somebody and then they're probably good at maybe selling them stocks and bonds and products that they might need. But they don't really spend that time really helping them understand like, what is the actual plan? Here, your goals, your your concerns? Here's your comfort with risk based off those things. Here's the planning that that is involved. Yeah. So sounds like between our 20s or 30s, we're laying that foundation, we're setting ourselves up to have that ecosystem of balance between immediate cash flow and future retirement. And then as we go into our 40s, we're starting to make some real, you know, impactful decisions about, you know, how can we leverage that? I think that I'm about to be in the 40. Club. Right. And you know, that amazing are in the club. It's, it's an amazing club, I cannot wait for it. But it's fast approaching. So, but I think that's that's the time that we start thinking about how can we leverage what we've already created? That always hits me hard is, you know, here's what I've done. Here's what I've done. Well, this was a great start. Now, how do I leverage that? Where Where do you play a role in that as, as people in their 40s are leveraging their assets are leveraging what they've produced? What kind of questions should we be asking about what that even means? Yeah, no. So the leveraging of what you've done up to that point is sort of An important thing and that 40 to 50 timeframe, you know, there, there are definitely some some potential shifts. You know, one of the things we talk about as advisors is not just how do you, you know, grow your assets or build wealth, but it's also how do you kind of protect that life insurance or long term care insurance can become a part of that. And a lot of people, you know, think, Oh, well, you know, I'm working for a company, I have life insurance, and they don't understand, you know, kind of how it all works. And if they don't have that job anymore, that that's gone, right. But also, a lot of times go making that shift from things like, and I won't get into too many of the details, but from like a term policy, which a lot of people will get, you know, in their 20s or 30s, to maybe more of like a permanent life insurance policy where you are, you know, it becomes more of an investment, not just for the death benefit of life insurance, but also some of the the value that that grows in the in the life insurance policy itself. And starting to think to Alright, how do I start to not just grow my money towards my goal, like, let's say, retirement, but a lot of people think, Alright, well, I'm just trying to get there. But the reality is, you're invested, you know, usually throughout the rest of your life. And so understanding how do I kind of start to change my mindset from growing as much as I can to? Alright, what what's the planning of, you know, Social Security? How do we create income in retirement? You know, what are some ways that I can protect these assets? We start talking about things like estate planning, so you grown this family, you have these children? Or maybe you're a little older, and you started having grandkids or whatever? How do I, you know, work with like an estate attorney? How do I work with like a CPA, and I work with my financial advisor, to have a plan for not just protecting my assets, but at some point, you know, transfer the transferring those assets, so that ultimately, maybe you can create, like a generational wealth. Yeah. And also, within that same time frame, you mentioned so many things in terms of protection and planning. But then, what about the lifestyle that you're enjoying today, right, like how and we do this when we do listing appointments, or if we work with our past clients, especially in this market today, where, you know, homes are appreciating so quickly, and there's this instant equity, or there's all of this newfound opportunity, and people have big decisions to make? How has your phone been ringing the last few years, during this pandemic? You know, what should I do with this and talk about, like, some of the challenges that people are facing with that, or maybe even opportunities that maybe they didn't know, they had? Absolutely, you know, you mentioned kind of real estate, you know, I always tell people, I stay in my lane, which is kind of the investing side of, you know, financial advising, but at the same time, these are big questions that clients are having, you know, should I be refinancing, you know, as rates, you know, went down these last couple of years, or, you know, I've got some debt to pay, and now I have all this equity in my house, you know, should I be, you know, looking to get some kind of like a home equity loan and pay off some of this debt. And so these are definitely questions that that I get asked, and sometimes I'll say, well, let's, let's team up with, you know, your mortgage broker are your realtor and as a group, let's, let's help you make the decision that's going to be best for you and your family. Because I always tell people like, for me, the way that I see, you know, the decision making process, at least as as an advisor, is I feel like my job is to make sure that you know, all right, if you've got option A or B, or maybe even a, b, and c, I want you to have those here are the things that are positive or good, but also what are the things that you need to be aware of and think about, right, so now you know what your options are, you know, the good and the things that you need to think about based off of our relationship and be asking really good questions and understanding your situation, you know, you're paying me for advice. So I'm going to give advice as to which of those options I think is best for you and your family. But at the end of the day, the client is always the one who needs to make that decision, because it's their money that they've worked really hard for, it's their family. So yes, I'm gonna understand your your situation, I'm going to make sure you know what the options are. I'm going to give you advice, but you need to ultimately make the decision that's best for you, your family's right, we always say we don't, it's not our money. It's not our responsibility to spend it either. Right. And as in when we're helping families with some of the biggest life decisions that they make, whether it's real estate or financial planning, that's a that's a lot of responsibility. And so you're right, it does boil down to trust and relationship and creating a team of people that you know are going to keep your best interest and your fiduciary in mind. So the other you know, piece of this as I'm listening to you talk is the fact that it seems like you really found your niche, and something that has blended to things that you never thought maybe would have been blended. So if you could give advice to somebody, let's go back to college or high school about this path that you've been on. Yeah. What would you give to that person that saying, like, I like the way Michaels talking about his job and the way that he gets to impact people? I think I might want to do that. Yeah. So it's an interesting question. You know, having spent many years counseling middle school, but high school kids is they're trying to think about, you know, going to college and what are they going to, you know, major end, because maybe that's going to impact eight. And you last night, we're driving home from cheer. And she goes, Mom, I don't know what I want to be when I grew up. I was like, okay, yeah. Stay there for a while. Yes. Yeah. And then she's like, I might want to be like, work at Starbucks and have like, an apartment, you only work part time, right? Yeah, that's like, Well, yeah. Okay. Well, so, you know, having kind of going back to that, and hope parents don't get mad at me for saying this. But what I found was the realization that yes, college is super important. But there are so many different paths to being successful. It could be a community college, it could be an associate's degree. I mean, I remember. So for me to have a master's degree and be a school counselor, I was making, like, $42,000 a year, right. And some of the kids who are 19 years old and went through like an apprenticeship for like masonry, or plumbing or any of those things, were making 60 70,000. I was like, hey, you know, there are so many ways that you can do it. So I always tell people, the two things that I think are important when you're thinking about, how do I ultimately get to where I want to be in like a career is you have to find something that you really are passionate about. And sometimes that takes time. But you really do want to find something you're passionate about. And then you have to work your ass off right back and say that, yeah, but you know, nobody has been successful without working hard. That's right, right. And so again, going back to this idea, yes, college is important, or getting a degree or getting some kind of training. But at the end of the day, when you look at the people who've been very, very successful, they did they found something they are passionate about, and then they worked really, really hard to get there. Yeah. And it can change. So yes. And so there was one thing I didn't tell you. So I have an undergrad degree in business. And I got my Master's in Counseling, and oh, six, there was a point in there where I was kind of, you know, not, again, I liked what I did as a council, but I was still trying to find my way. And so I'd always really love deviant behavior, okay, you know, and it kind of goes with that psychology and sociology. And I had this little kind of fascination with like, Silence of the Lambs and serial killers. Yes. But I actually went and got a master's in criminal justice. Okay. And I say all that to kind of say, like, my path has definitely not been straight, you know, asking, like, how do you kind of get to where you wanted to be? Again, it just took really trying different avenues pursuing things that I was interested in at that time, you know, and allowing myself the freedom to kind of fail, like, I got this degree, and I, you know, I had student loans to pay, but I never used it, right. But at the same time, it allowed me, you know, to explore something that I was interested in, you know, to, to, you know, put two years of work towards this thing. So, it taught me the idea that, you know, working towards those things that you're passionate about, is what's gonna help you, you know, get to where you ultimately want to be. Yeah, I like that. You're not you put yourself in a position to fail and be okay with it. Because the other side of that is the growth, right? And how how we get there, it's not a race, right, and how we get there as part of the experience. Yes. Yeah. I think that the more winding and the more, you know, flexible we can be with how to achieve goals, the more goals we're able to achieve. Absolutely. So okay, going back to our community, you mentioned apex, yes. The peak of good living. That's right. There's my first Apex visitor. So tell me a little bit about some of the changes that you've seen in APEX and you know, especially since you stopped family there and that yes, your memories are there because I grew up in Cary. So neighbors, right. But it's a lot different. Oh, yeah. Like paint that picture? Yeah. Well, so I grew up right across the street from the high school. And I remember, you know, or Dunkin lower Dunkin yes or no words. I was like two houses from the school. But you know, going downtown apex, I think there was like a Mexican restaurant. And that was about it. But my favorite place was the library. Oh, yeah. You know, I think now it's like the Chamber of Commerce or town hall. But yeah, you know, my mom was a teacher and we love to just like go to law. library, you can get a bunch of books and go home and read. But now you go down there and there's like, you know, scratch and you know, some really great restaurants. And I mean, they've done so much to just make that, you know, a place where people really want to go and enjoy and shop and, you know, spend time there. So I'm really proud of that. So, you know, one of the other things that just stands out to me is, so jock, who's now the mayor of APEX, right, you know, he, you know, talked about someone who's been successful, and just been a big huge impact to the apex community, you know, working as like a school resource officer, and I'm being a police officer there. And then, you know, recently becoming mayor, you know, I think that it's really cool to see people who really care about that town in that community, helping it to grow and rise up. And just it's funny, you mentioned that because I participated in the Raleigh regional associations Leadership Academy, this past class, so I graduated from that, and just about a month ago, in January, and we had one of the program pieces is that you attend the candidate interviews for local municipalities to figure out who and the Realtors Association should be endorsed, right? You know, and that's something I'm learning in our real estate industry is that there is a political side to it, you know, how we were deemed essential during the pandemic, all that came from our association in our industry. And it was really cool to see in these local municipalities that there are so many natives that are rising up into leadership. So I think that's a great pronunciation of apex. Oh, yeah. Remember, there was a couple of candidates that we spoke to that they live there, they grew up there, and they have a real, you know, connection to how they want to see the community grow. Yeah, I mean, I would say that, you know, not just for apex, we're just kind of this area. I mean, I know, there's a lot of people who've kind of relocated here, and that's great. And, you know, growth is important. But there are people that I've grown up with, that are still in this area, that really have just made an impact. You mentioned kind of Carrie, and there's a guy named Matt Perry, who's in the real estate world, right, but, but he's just a great great guy, and, and really does care about, you know, this area and the communities and has done a lot to give back. You know, so I just think that there's, there's a lot of people that who grew up here that really, really genuinely care, you know, my best friend since I was in third grade, you know, a guy named Brent Saul's is the. So he's the Dean of Students like Broughton High School, you know, so again, you know, having lived here and now being in a place where, you know, he can make a positive impact on the families that are that are in that area. I just think it's really important. Like the people who are from here are very proud to be here, and really care about this community growing. I agree positive. I think that's why we continue to be ranked and so widely noticed by relocation clients is because that, you know, the way that we're growing and the you know, the local impact is so you know, large, absolutely. Okay, so, five questions, maybe 333. Let's do three, you mentioned, you're an avid reader. Okay. Are you still an avid reader? Oh, man, the invention of the cell phone is changed a little bit. You know, so, yes, yeah. So the last thing I read was green lights. Matthew McConaughey. Second vote for green light. Oh, my question. Yes, it is one of my favorites. Well, I did actually listen to it on Audible as well. And he's the one who reads it and you gotta love his voice. But just even Yeah, such an amazing book. And I love just the idea of Yeah, again, here's your definitely lots of different paths that he took along the way. Just saying, Okay, this is a green light, like this is an opportunity for me to go and try and do something and he failed at some of those things, but has become obviously a very successful person. Yeah, I really love that book. So much gratitude. Yeah. What's your favorite thing to do with your kids in your spare time? Oh man to do in this area? Yeah. It's a great question. So I mean, the little things really, like we just we spent, you know, time at the kitchen table playing phase 10 You know, my daughter's kicking me and my sons but you know, we love going and you know, seeing friends you know, having been from around here and family, they're very involved right? So my son plays football and few clay and then my daughter's been doing like volleyball and soccer. You talked a lot about you sports on making those and so Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, way of involving your kid. Yeah, I've always been the I'm not gonna coach my kids, but now that my daughter's playing soccer and she's 10 I'm at the place where I'm like, oh, no, maybe I can coach you a little soccer because that was my my go to sport. You know, we went to defy you know, just this past weekend. So, yeah, so we love to be out. You know, I'm a big fan of experiences over things. So, you know, anytime that I can take my kids, you know, we travel I think I mentioned before we started, you know, I've took them to Turks and Caicos back in October and we've done like the Disney cruise to the Bahamas, you know, so I just love to be able to show them experience in this world that will hopefully, you know, grow their minds and yeah, yeah. And how about you? What's your favorite restaurant in the triangle? Oh, you can't ask that. Because I'm a foodie. And I absolutely love, love, love, love to eat and I love all different kinds. So it could be Indian or Thai or sushi or Mexican or Italian. But if you had to put me on the spot, I'm gonna say Maximilian and Carrie. Oh, wow. Okay, so it's been there for McGregor. No, it's, it's um, I want to say Chapel Hill Road. Okay. Yeah. By Woody's Yes. It's right by Woody wings. Yeah. My best wings is Woody. Yeah, am I arguing? Yeah, like my way Tavern and Holly Springs. But But yeah, Maximilian, like it's the most unassuming little place on the corner. But when you when you go inside you mean, every every night they've got another carry restaurant before cuz it was just one of the only ones growing up was Roma's pizza. Okay. Did you ever do that? Oh my gosh, that's so good. So, you know, shout out to Michael Longo and Mario Longo and the longest family. But you know, the first pizza we ever ate was that so it was the Carrie mall right Carrie village back in the day, their father started a place called cousins beat. Oh, yeah. Now it's Vic's over like in like a city market and downtown Raleigh locations. But for me, that's the best pizza in town. And okay, outside of restaurants. What do you what do you like to do on the triangle? I just love to you know, to be outside I love you know, play a lot of golf and tennis now. Best best course. Where do you like to play? I well. So I play a lot at Eagle ridge. Okay, yeah. But, Garner? Yep. Eagle ridge in Garner. Very good, well done. But you know, go into like, Umstead or somewhere to like, go for hikes. Jordan Lake, my sister lives out near there. Awesome. I love the water. You know, I wish I could live part time at the beach, you know, somewhere in Wilmington. But that's like a financial planning goal. It really is. I tell people it's like on my five year plan. It's like even if I just have like a, like a trailer on a piece of land. I just love being near the beach. So much. And last question, best advice you've ever been given? Gosh, that probably came from my grandfather, because he was such a big role model to me. But I'm going to say I'm going to give you my favorite quote, to tell you because it's kind of also advice. So it's Maya Angelou and she said people will always remember what you say or what you did, but they'll always remember how you made them feel. Yeah. And so for me, like if I could teach my kids or any anybody in the world something, it's that how you treat people really, really matters. So true. Great way to wrap it up. Yeah. Michael, thank you so much for sharing your journey and your experience. And also, you know, if if listeners didn't get the sense of who you are as a consultant, and who you are as a partner and their financial success, then I think they should go back and re listen. Oh, I appreciate I just appreciate the opportunity to come and talk about all these things. And so thank you very much for having me this morning. Absolutely. Thank you for joining us on this episode of Making Moves. We want to deliver the highlights of the triangle that you want to hear. Let us know your feedback, comment on our social media like and of course subscribe to continue and discover why we love where we live until next time with Making Moves hosted by The Rachel Kendall Team.